LET’S GET UP TO BUSINESS
Patti and John Brownsword or Data Wonderment
Have you ever wondered where your customers are coming from? Are you aware of what the best profit centers to invest in are? Are you sure your marketing to the right potential clients?
If you’re not really sure about the answers to these questions, then you need Patti and John Brownsword to come in. Their company, Data Wonderment, can take an audit of the data you may not even be aware you have access to and help you answer these and other questions you may have about your company.
It’s true that you know where your money is going in expenses, and you’re likely a profitable business, but are you as profitable as you can be? Are you throwing money toward expenses that aren’t paying you back? Patti and John know. They can do the deep dive and make sure your spend goes where it should.
In this episode, they sat down with Jordan and discussed some of the questions that you may have, and some of the answers you should know. They talk about some of the data points you should be monitoring and why. On top of that, they discuss some of the data you’re likely already looking at and making some sense of where those numbers come from.
Episode 21: Patti and John Brownsword of Data Wonderment – Full Transcript
Patti Brownsword 0:00
A data audit helps figure out if there’s additional things that we can do because the data audit is really just a starting point. But really to get their data wrangled, but then it’s, well, this is what you could do with it if you continue to monitor it, if you continue to make changes. And so let’s continue to work together and build a relationship.
Picture a world where costs are down, profits are up, and customers are clamoring at your door. You’re listening to “Let’s Get Up to Business” from Jordan Law. Our interviews with business owners, service providers, and area experts can teach you how to create a world of success and profitability. If you’re looking for an attorney to assist in your business formation, employment agreements, or other legal business needs, contact Jordan Law at (407)-906-5529. You can also reach us on the web at JordanLawFL.com. Jordan Law, we protect you and your business.
Jordan Ostroff 1:17
Hello, and welcome to Let’s Get Up to Business with Jordan Law. Joining me today are not one but two awesome guests. We have Patti and John Brownsword with Data Wonderment. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Unknown Speaker 1:26
Hi, great. Thanks for having us.
Jordan Ostroff 1:29
So tell us a little about yourself.
Patti Brownsword 1:31
Well, I’m Patti
John Brownsword 1:33
Patti Brownsword 1:34
And I have a main hustle. But I started a side hustle a little more than two and a half years ago, called Data Wonderment, or Data Wonderment, you know, tomato, tomato, but I wanted to help small and medium sized businesses kind of wrangle their data and figure out what to do with their data to make useful insights. And so I have a business partner but John, being my husband, is also kind of very integral in the business, not only helping me with all of the different projects that we have, but then also keeping my head on straight and cleaning the house and making dinner too.
John Brownsword 2:13
I do it all.
Jordan Ostroff 2:14
All important tasks.
Patti Brownsword 2:15
Yes. Yes, it’s important to have a good, either community or family or support structure, if you’re going to be trying to do this situation. So yeah, so the side hustle has been a lot of fun. But we do, we do that. So I have a main gig. I have the side hustle. John, starting another main gig soon, it’ll be helping me with this. And then we also have a podcast on the side that we’re trying to launch too, “Patti is Still Learning”, part of my blog. PattiisStillLearning.com.
Jordan Ostroff 2:47
There you go.
Patti Brownsword 2:47
Yeah, little plug. But yeah, so we, we just like to, you know, have fun, find joy in life and help businesses wrangle data, because the insights that they, that they get out of it, where we can actually help move the needle, you know, increase operational efficiency by X percent, or make the marketing plan X percent more efficient by making certain decisions based on past historical data. That’s like some of our favorite stuff.
Jordan Ostroff 3:15
So you’re helping businesses figure out what data they need to collect, as well as how to read that data and how to make changes going forward?
Patti Brownsword 3:22
Yes, it depends on the business. We like to work with business owners who’ve been in business for at least more than five years. That way, they’ve got some data to wrangle, because the first couple of years, you’re still just trying to figure out what’s what, and then you get a little bit going. So at least if we’ve got three years of data, we can find seasonality, we can find historical fluctuations, so that way, when you do start making changes and pulling different levers, we can measure those changes and actually see what’s actually happening and more effective.
Jordan Ostroff 3:56
Okay, so having a listener who knows they’ve been running their business for about five years, they want more of understanding of how the business is doing and what changes to make. They know they need your help, what’s the best way for them to get in contact with you?
Patti Brownsword 4:09
They can email me at Patti (with an I) @DataWonderment.com. You can also email [email protected], check us out on all the social medias is @DataWonderment. We’re around.
Jordan Ostroff 4:21
Okay, so let’s get into, I guess the beginning of this. So you’re not looking for a new business owner, you want somebody who has enough history that you can pull proper data from what they’ve been doing?
Patti Brownsword 4:32
Yes, we can consult on new businesses, if they want help with setting up. We have a good friend who, with her company, she tries to help develop small businesses who are about to scale big. So she helps them and she’s talked to us, you know about helping her with, help making sure that they are capturing the data correctly from the beginning. But for what we do, what we like to do, our favorite thing is my what we call a data audit is we’ll go through and depending on if you want an operations track or a marketing track, we have different frameworks that will analyze a certain number set of data collection points that you have, because everybody’s got, you know, data from all different places. Either they’re using a CRM, and they’re using an accounting system. And they’re using the, you know, Google Analytics, and they’re using your search engine marketing. And they’re using Facebook. And they’re, you know, all these different points where data can be used to follow a path. So we have kind of a framework that shows a marketing funnel path of how you get all of your people through to a sale. And so we’ll analyze, if there’s any breakpoints in how you collect your data, as well as if there’s any insights that can be gleaned from the data while we’re collecting it. And then on the operation side, we can do the same thing with measuring sensor data, building the sensors, so that if you’re building, if you have different parts or sets that need to be watched, we can build those and monitor those and report on them. Or if you already have all that data, we can build dashboards, to make sure that you’re looking at the data correctly, that you can make strategic decisions off of.
Jordan Ostroff 6:21
Alright, so let’s unpack that a little bit. I, first you used the word breakpoint. What’s that?
Patti Brownsword 6:28
Um, that might be a Patti term, there’s a few of those that come out of me. So it’s a, it’s like a, almost a roadblock or a, what’s the other term? That’s probably more – a bottleneck.
Jordan Ostroff 6:41
Patti Brownsword 6:42
And so or in the marketing idea, there’s a, it’s a sieve, where your funnel has holes in it. And so there’s a point where different, you know, either the people that you’re trying to capture and get attention of, they’re falling out of your funnel. And so it’s a, I call that a breakpoint, but it’s also a hole, or if it’s operations, there’s a some kind of block that is, there’s some kind of efficiency, where it’s like, well, you know that, you know, you’re going after this, you’re shipping to this market. But a lot of the returns are happening at this market, or the shipping costs are actually higher than what you’re charging. And have you thought about actually moving the lever of, you know, not pushing this market as much, because if you push another market, that’s a little cheaper, you could actually make more money on the back end of the actual shipping costs. So that’s the break point. It’s a Patti-ism.
Jordan Ostroff 7:34
Gotcha. Are there specific types of businesses that you all are targeting? Or is it really just the you know, at that five year mark, looking to take the next step or firm up the foundation?
Patti Brownsword 7:45
We are open to lots of opportunities right now. With being in business for two and a half years, for the first year and a half, we were just saying, we’ll work with anybody, all the things, we can do anything, let’s just try. And now we’ve kind of solidified a little more, but when in terms of the actual business structure, we want to work a lot with like, if there’s productive development, where we can analyze that operationally, or even with service, we can handle analyzing that operationally for, if there’s like call centers or if you have service calls for people going out and measuring that, we’ve, we’ve, if one of the more interesting ones that we’ve come across was analyzing, or AB testing, a cleaning company for businesses where you could, we wanted to analyze the efficiency of the cleaners because they had to clock in and out per building and business. And we wanted to see if there were any, quote unquote “breakpoints” of, do they start to wear down or slow down after a certain point? Are there certain offices that are harder to clean than others? So my answer is, I guess still is a lot of everybody.
Jordan Ostroff 9:09
Patti Brownsword 9:09
We’re not, we’re not picky quite yet. But that’s really where I think the data audit helps figure out if there’s additional things that we can do, because the data audit is really just a starting point. But really to get their data wrangled. But then it’s, well, this is what you could do with it if you continue to monitor it, if you continue to make changes. And so let’s continue to work together and build a relationship.
John Brownsword 9:32
Don’t forget the, the survey work that you do as well.
Patti Brownsword 9:35
Oh, sure. Yes, yes. Thank you. Um, yeah, with the survey work, we –
John Brownsword 9:40
Are reaching out to prospective clients, patients.
Patti Brownsword 9:42
Yeah, we are also trying to build up our customer satisfaction, or employee satisfaction survey work, I’ve got a guy who has a doctorate and his focus was on customer experience and satisfaction. And so, so technically two and a half years in, we’re still saying we can do a lot of things. But the survey work, we can build out different surveys for different stakeholders. So we’re actually trying to focus a little bit on the nonprofits there, because they need the most help. They may not necessarily have the most money, but if we can figure out some economies of scale of working with a bunch of them at one time. So we’re trying to figure that out. But for businesses, I would say if you have a CRM, and you feel like it’s gotten away from you, like for one of our clients, they have Salesforce, but the marketing guy, five years ago, started it, implemented all these things, did all this stuff, and then mic drop left. And then everyone else is like, what are we – are we doing this right? What’s going on? Is, is there garbage in here? How do we even do this? And we were at, we were doing the audit, and we’re like, so what are these, what are the point wait values for? And they said, we don’t know! Could you advise on how to do it better? So if the data has gotten away from you, we can help wrangle it. Or if you’re just feeling like you’ve got them in so many disconnected places. I know that there’s some advertisement going around on some podcasts that I’m listening to where they’re saying, you know, buy this one platform, because all of it fits in to like, you can take all of your different pieces and put it into this one platform to be able to look at it across things. And that’s kind of what you can do, because they have to, they put a lot of money into building API’s and infrastructure to make it all kind of work. And we are more ad hoc, scrappy Hondas where we want to kind of put something together and build it that is for you, that doesn’t have to be rejiggered so that it’s, it kind of works.
Jordan Ostroff 11:53
So you’re putting in more of the personalized solution.
Patti Brownsword 11:56
Jordan Ostroff 11:57
So I get, you know, I talked to a lot of especially younger attorneys that are first starting out their business, and you know, I bring up the CRM issue and their eyes glaze over, like we’re talking about, you know, high level calculus. So, from that standpoint, I mean, you have these people that don’t even understand what a CRM is, or don’t even have a plate, you know, they’re putting client information in an Excel spreadsheet or something like that.
Patti Brownsword 12:17
That’s okay. Excel spreadsheets are fine. If you’ve thought about how like, the columns that you want to actually have and making it useful. Things to keep in mind is if you want, you know, if you like, separating things out as much as possible, so they can be sortable better, definitely makes everybody’s lives easier. So don’t put first name, last name in one cell, have a first name cell, have a last name cell. Addresses, break it apart. Email addresses, make sure that you build them exactly the way they’re supposed to be. Phone numbers. That way they can really be analyzed well. Keep the zip code in a different cell, so that way we can analyze where there coming from.
– is if you’ve got characteristic data. So if you’ve got demographic information you can put in there. If you’ve got different habits, or patterns or notes that are brief enough, we can analyze those too. So as you start to build your clientele database, think about all the different things that you could use as categorization. And then we can start to actually build out audience targeting for that.
Jordan Ostroff 13:28
And I’m just going to throw in also, try and track where the case came from. I talked to so many attorneys that don’t do that at all. And how do you, you know, you’re talking about the operations versus the marketing stuff. But I always tell people, if you can’t get money on the marketing side, the operation side doesn’t matter.
Patti Brownsword 13:43
Yes. Yes, capturing, and that’s, that’s with all businesses is know where your customers are coming from, or try to ask or figure it, you know, figure it out. Be wary, though. Surveys and research have always said that, even if you don’t advertise on TV, take some of it with a grain of salt, but use it as a guidepost. But I would say for lawyers, especially if there’s a referral service and things that, or other lawyers, keep track of all that. Because you definitely want to give a good Christmas gift after, you know, at the end of the year. It’s like thank you so much.
Jordan Ostroff 14:21
Right, absolutely. So how, I guess the first question is, you’re – are you having people reach out to you or you reaching out to people to help them?
Patti Brownsword 14:33
Right now it’s been referral for us. Yes, I have, I’ve been in the Orlando advertising industry for 15 years. And so I’ve got it, just like I got a lot of good connections. And when I decided to hang my shingle, as the lawyers say, they, they were reaching out to me as well, and saying, hey, this is this is what you’re doing? Oh, I have something. And so everything, almost everything that we’ve won has been through referral. We have done some RFP work with Orange County, and we’ve won one thing with do
Jordan Ostroff 15:07
Patti Brownsword 15:08
RFP is request for proposal. So Orange County will send out these RFP requests. And some are for marketing, some are for trash cans, some are for software, like it’s all over the place. But because my business partner and I, we’re both women, we signed up for the minority women business enterprise certification, which is a very big rigmarole to get through, but you actually get more points for being those when you’re going through government request for proposals.
Jordan Ostroff 15:41
Patti Brownsword 15:42
So we’re keeping doing those, slowly, but surely, we keep and the nice thing with those is we actually see how we compare against others. And we’re starting to tick up higher on the end list of you know, top five. We were the five, now we’re number two. And you know, one time, one time we were number one, we got it. So we landed a three year contract. That was when we finally were like we’re a real business, we can do this.
Jordan Ostroff 16:09
So you don’t have the hurdle of trying to convince people the importance of what you’re doing.
Patti Brownsword 16:14
We can’t it That’s too much. That’s too much to try to convince people that data is important when everyone else is screaming that out loud right now is just, it’s a lot like, it would be, that would be an uphill battle. If somebody’s business owner was like, well, no, I don’t think that my data is important, or I don’t think you know, I need to collect it, we’ll be like I can’t help you. I’ll send you some of my blog posts on why it’s important. And I’ll send you third party blog posts, but it’s, you’re not going to move the needle with those people. We’re looking for people that know, more can be done. And it could be done better. And one client, he actually, bless his heart, he’s still like, I just don’t know if you’re going to get anything out of this and we’re like we will, don’t worry, we’re cleaning it up. Data is data, and all data is messy. But don’t let anyone fool you. Data is never clean, there’s always some kind of blip. But I’ve got people, I work with quite a few independent contractors, since this is a side hustle, and I can’t do, I can’t do it all and they are much smarter than me. They, they can wrangle all that and parse it out and figure it out and make it so that it’s usable. So it’s possible.
Jordan Ostroff 17:24
So I’m not going to call out the attorney by name but I was talking to somebody a couple weeks ago, who was spending almost $100,000 a year in marketing and wasn’t tracking where any of their cases were coming from. Yeah, the, the look on your face, and the noise you just made is better than what I had. Alright, so that’s good. I mean, you know, because I, we all run into the same wall of trying to convince people that knowing more about their business is key, you know, not having to get over that hurdle. I mean, that’s huge. Because I’m right there with you. I mean, I’m totally a data nerd, myself. And obviously, you know, we’re sort of limited on some of this stuff we can collect based upon who our clientele is, and confidentiality and whatnot.
Patti Brownsword 18:03
Jordan Ostroff 18:05
So walk me through, you know, so you have these businesses referred to you, they’ve been running for, you know, around five years or more, what are the biggest problems that you see businesses making before they sit down with you?
Patti Brownsword 18:24
They’ve changed their system, like three times. The first one was paper, and then they went to something else but then they decided, well, it’s not worth migrating it over. And then they went to something else. And then they, and it was all kind of messed up, like we just, if there’s just not enough data to make anything out of it. So at that point, the data audit is more or less, here’s a – we’ll give you a workshop on how to make this better, and how to collect it better. And that’s an unfortunate roadblock, then we’re like saying, okay, well, then in either six months to a year, depending on how much data you collect, then we can come back and do an actual analysis. And so it’s always unfortunate for, it’s almost like a business owner who’s seen something shiny like squirrel. Oh, let me do this, squirrel. Oh, let me buy this, oh squirrel. Let me go here. And they don’t commit to one thing. It’s the, it’s the integrity of the length of data that’s collected, not necessarily how.
Jordan Ostroff 19:25
And the problem with that is because it’s not financially worth it for you to put all that data together?
Patti Brownsword 19:31
Well it’s cause they don’t keep. Yeah, the problem is, is if they’ve had it all on paper, then they just scrapped it and then started something fresh, and like, this is what we’re going to do. And then they didn’t keep any of the historical stuff. If they have all of it, great. It’s still a mess and we can, we can get it all together. But it’s that, well, the idea of, oh, well, this one was cheaper, or this was a free service so I went to that, but then it was hard to download to get it out to do anything so I just left it. And I have to say we, we did that a little bit, too. It was, so we went from FreshBooks to QuickBooks because when we finally said enough is enough, we needed an accountant, the accountant that we hired, they were, they were QuickBooks people. And we were just like, if we, let’s make everybody’s lives easier, and switched to QuickBooks, so we also have a personal assistant, because she does all the zone of incompetence stuff that I don’t want to touch. So she migrated it over. But I didn’t catch her fast enough to have it, it wasn’t my, it wasn’t necessarily migrated. It was like downloaded in like a PDF and sent to the accountant. So, so the accountant could deal with it. But now I have a PDF mess. And it’s like, oh, I could delimit it and figure it out and get it pulled down. But I’m doing it and I don’t, I pay other people to do it for clients. I don’t want to pay my independent contractors to do it for me. So I’m kind of in the same boat.
Jordan Ostroff 21:02
We all have limited resources. Whether it’s money, whether it’s time, whether it’s both. Okay, so the biggest problem that you see is really either not keeping the data or losing the data as you migrate through different things.
Patti Brownsword 21:13
Jordan Ostroff 21:14
Okay. In terms of clients who are keeping data, who do have access to it, what are the biggest things that you see that they’re not tracking, that they should be tracking, you know, yesterday, a year ago, three years ago?
Patti Brownsword 21:30
Some of the best stuff and easiest stuff is track the addresses.
Jordan Ostroff 21:34
Patti Brownsword 21:35
Because there’s actually so much we can get through other third party resources that can add value to the address information you collect. So I don’t know if you’ve heard of like Experian data. They, if we plug in addresses with zip, even if, even if we just have a zip code, we can start doing cluster developments of who your target audiences are based on who you’ve, who you have as clients. Even if you have addresses from people who didn’t buy, then we can even see the differences between those that didn’t buy your stuff versus those that did buy your stuff.
Jordan Ostroff 22:12
So you can see that people in zip code A are hiring you at a 75% rate and people in zip code B are hiring you at a 10% rate.
Patti Brownsword 22:18
and that the zip code A, they, their XYZ demographic with some psychographics, and they enjoy this kind of activity, and they watch this kind of show.
Jordan Ostroff 22:30
Patti Brownsword 22:30
So we can even get that.
Jordan Ostroff 22:32
So we have started collecting people’s addresses as of like, a couple months ago. So I’m glad that, I’m glad that that’s on your list.
Patti Brownsword 22:38
Yes, yeah, I would say the magic number to be able to develop anything useful would be between three to five hundred. 300, it’d be a little loosey goosey, we’d still make some assumptions. 500, we’d be able to give you some better ideas of who your people are.
Jordan Ostroff 22:56
And that would be three to five hundred individual clients. Gotcha. Okay, so you, so I mean, I guess for some of our listeners, they’re thinking, oh, my God, 500 people, you know, that’s a month, and for other listeners, they’re thinking that’s many years.
Patti Brownsword 23:07
Exactly. It’s relative.
Jordan Ostroff 23:08
It sounds to me that, I mean, that’s lower than I expected.
Patti Brownsword 23:12
Yeah, yeah. It’s, it just, it depends on. And also like, where they are like, if you’re a national, and you only have 500, that’s not going to get you enough zip code data to find anything useful. So there’s that other layer of your geographic reach. So I’m thinking if it’s a small, like a Orlando, and you’ve got 500 zip code, you know, records from like the Orlando, Central Florida region, we can make magic with that. Okay, if you’ve got 500, and it’s sparsed all around the country we’ll say, well, you’ve got one person here and one person there and 20 people there. That’s not anything to be able to come up with. So it becomes very relative.
Jordan Ostroff 23:53
There’s like that one National Park in Oregon that you think the only person who lives there hired you but maybe that’s not an area we want to target. So what about I mean, for somebody who’s statewide, you know, is 500 people going to be sufficient?
Patti Brownsword 24:04
No, no, no, you’re much bigger, much bigger. I don’t have a magic number for you at that.
Jordan Ostroff 24:12
Well, more is better.
Patti Brownsword 24:13
More is better, more is way better. Yeah, it but if you are a Florida, you should have quite a few names I would hope. And again, it’s not even those that buy, but those that don’t buy, because we can identify a whole level of interested and engaged as well as, you know, lookers or bookers.
Jordan Ostroff 24:40
Well, it’s the, it’s the old expression, you know, half of what we know is incorrect, we just don’t know which half. You know, the knowing, knowing that, knowing that not the data is bad, but the result is bad is just as helpful as knowing the result is good when you’re collecting the data.
Patti Brownsword 24:52
Jordan Ostroff 24:54
Okay. So for you know, so the three to five hundred people you’re talking about, that would be something for like all of Orange County or just Orlando for those numbers being, I don’t want to say ideal, because again, more is better.
Patti Brownsword 25:06
Yeah, I would say Orange County would be a better bet.
Jordan Ostroff 25:08
Okay. Alright, so for our, for our listeners, assume a couple hundred people per County are your reach areas.
Patti Brownsword 25:14
That’s a nice assumption. I like that. I’m gonna take that.
Jordan Ostroff 25:17
Yeah, no, by all means. So what, kind of walk me through the process. I guess it’s, it’s going to be drastically different if we’re talking about marketing versus talking about operation.
Patti Brownsword 25:29
Jordan Ostroff 25:30
So operations, I mean, to me, I think that’s going to be kind of too case by case specific to talk about.
Patti Brownsword 25:36
No, that is definitely case by case. Marketing, I can give you a lot more broad answers.
Jordan Ostroff 25:40
All right. So marketing, marketing is marketing, as I, as I tell people in a positive way. Alright, so then let’s focus kind of on the marketing side, you know, walk me through what you’re doing with that data, how you’re running it through stuff. I mean, what’s, what’s the process, like, for a business owner who’s sit down with you to help them get their marketing to the next level?
Patti Brownsword 25:57
Sure. So, I’ll give an example that’s a real life happening right now. We have a client and he’s a national client. But he has been, they’ve been, when they use, you know, digital advertising, they were just, they didn’t put any constraints on it. They just, the company that they bought the contract with to run all their ads online just said, well, we’ll let the algorithm figure out where best to run the ads.
Jordan Ostroff 26:28
Right, we have no problem spending your money until the algorithm finds out. I’m familiar with that.
Patti Brownsword 26:33
Yeah, with that, that starts at like, that’s the, if you think of a funnel is, you know, it’s wide at the top and skinny at the bottom. So digital advertising is at the very top, because that’s, you know, you’re driving awareness. And then in some cases, you can drive action. But in this case, while they were trying to drive conversions, they weren’t getting enough online to be able to build a model. So they just kept dumping the money at the places where they were getting, you know, people to at least visit the website. So they were dumping more money at the lookers, and not the bookers because they couldn’t get enough bookers because they were spreading the money everywhere.
Jordan Ostroff 27:12
Patti Brownsword 27:13
And so the analysis that we’re doing with them right now is, well, if this algorithm was saying, these are the markets that we should be in, well, let’s dive a little deeper. And so we’re actually going to be taking a geographic study of those particular markets all the way down to the final revenue spends, that’s in their CRM. And so we’re going to be looking at a whole journey story of those different markets. So one of them’s New York, one of them is, oh, not LA, San Francisco. And then a big one’s Salt Lake City, because that happens to be where they are. And so they, they buy a lot of radio, they buy TV, they buy newspaper, in Salt Lake City. And so when they buy banner ads it, it’s running in Salt Lake City, people are clicking, because they’re doing all this other stuff. And so then the algorithm is just dumping more into Salt Lake City when they don’t need it. But now we take what they’re doing with the banner advertising. And then we go into their Google Analytics, and we go into their search engine marketing. And we they have ecommerce set up in the Google Analytics. So we can actually see the search engine marketing, and what that, what that is driving for revenue. But we’re going to be looking at it at the marketplace, because what I’ve also noticed is, it’s Houston, like, they had a high amount of impressions in Houston for the banner ads, but not enough, but there was no revenue from that banner advertising. But there’s a lot of revenue coming from in Google Analytics from paid search, and from just keyword search.
Jordan Ostroff 28:52
Patti Brownsword 28:52
Yeah, in Houston. And so what I’m trying to think is well, how is this geographic market different, if we’ve never been in it before, it’s probably, you need like, there needed to be an increased amount of frequency in the Houston market, because it’s such a long window from looking to booking. And so what you have to understand with the marketing funnel, is that all the top stuff influences the bottom stuff. And so while that banner ad company couldn’t claim the sale, it’s because they only had a 30 day look back window. And so if it’s taking Houstonites, you know, 45 days, 60 days, 90 days to finally get around to buying this product, they’re not being able to get that attention, but we can see it through the funnel. So by building the market journey, we can actually see the differences. And so like New York, they are like bought, like their average revenue is like really low for, for each sale, which means they’re buying like the accessories, whereas this other market, there’s is like really, really high, which means they’re all in, they’ve already, they’ve, they’ve drank the Kool Aid, and they’re buying the big, you know, the biggest product that they’ve got. So by looking at things on a geographic level, we’re going through the whole marketing system. And so not only, we’re also looking at their email platform, and seeing what kind of responses that we’re getting, so we can see by market, how that differentiates itself. And then going even further, we’ll be looking then at the sales. And then we’re going even into their, their satisfaction surveys that they do through the company’s called Bizarre Voice where people will rate it and write a, write a piece, we can analyze that so we can go all the way through the whole cycle. And so we picked geography for this particular company, because that seemed to make the most sense, because they had just kind of sprayed and prayed. You know, and so another thing that I do, under Data Wonderment, but just because I’ve done it for so long, it’s something that I personally and then John is my, my coordinator on that, we do media planning buying. And so hopefully the next step is, I’m telling him where the markets he should be in and how he should be doing the frequency. And then he’ll give us the media dollars and will actually make the buy form.
Jordan Ostroff 31:14
So that would be like based upon the, you know, what you’re doing in this city to get this return, we should be buying radio ads in this city versus that city.
Patti Brownsword 31:22
Jordan Ostroff 31:23
Patti Brownsword 31:24
But then operationally, because I understand how all that works, it’s like, well, what are your shipping costs? Because your housed here, and you’re shipping your product all the way over here or all the way over there, would it made sense for us to pull the lever and dump more money to this market, when your margins are not going to be as high when this market is perfectly good and super closer? So then you’re, you’re saving on, on all that. And if it’s even like returns, you’re saving on, on things getting returned. So I can look at things in a much more holistic level. Before I got into the data world, and I was just doing media planning, buying, I’d spend my clients millions of dollars on, you know, new markets or different markets and not think in regard of well, you know, plane ticket costs, you know, is there a higher barrier to entry? Because all mine were travel clients, so is you know, is there a higher barrier of entry to get in and, and all that stuff. And so but now, because of the fact that I’m in much more of a data world, I can bring that experience and expertise to the media planning, buying arena.
Jordan Ostroff 32:28
So it sounds like almost, it sounds like there’s really like a multi step process where the first step is sort of like, you know, human, Zapier, getting everything together, getting all the data in one place, getting everything to talk.
Patti Brownsword 32:39
Jordan Ostroff 32:40
And then what you’re learning from that, and then implementing the changes then obviously just consistently reviewing, what’s going on is that the, kind of the life cycle of it?
Patti Brownsword 32:47
Yeah, that’s the whole goal. We stop at just the, so for the data audit contract, we’ll stop at the and here are the insights. And then we can, if you like that, all of that, and you feel like you can handle it on your own, please feel free. But if you still feel it’s daunting, let us continue the relationship, let us keep going on making the next steps. Let me help with the media buy or let, my, you know, survey, my survey guy help with building out your customer and employee satisfaction. Or, you know, we’re also like we’re pitching right now, for a rebrand. But it’s not technically a rebrand. It’s a internal employee brand-like analysis. And so, you know, we can do just employee surveys and be able to pull that information out. So that way when you know, HR is relaunching their care program or their benefits program that they can, they can help with that, too. So we’re still a little all over the place, but.
Jordan Ostroff 33:51
Well but it sounds like there’s, done the right way it sounds like there’s merit to that, because a lot of what you’re running into is these businesses don’t have everything. Nothing comes together, you know, so your job is sort of kind of to get it all to come together. Yeah. And then see what comes from that?
Patti Brownsword 34:07
Jordan Ostroff 34:08
You know, I think a lot of people, you know, you talk about price and whatnot. So I think a lot of companies lose sight of the benefit of consistency or the benefit of having everything in the same place versus saving money by having 27 different programs across 47 different websites across the, you know, everything else.
Patti Brownsword 34:25
Yeah, not impossible to pull all the data together. But it is much more time intensive. For sure.
Jordan Ostroff 34:31
So from, from this one that you talked about, you got this, you know, you got this company, that’s nationwide, I’m assuming they did a pretty good job collecting the data.
Patti Brownsword 34:39
No, they’re the ones that had the CRM where the guy started at five years ago. So it’s been quite messy. So we actually, we have a whole, we’ll be providing them a whole write up on how to fix it. Because I also have a Salesforce Implementation Specialist. And so he doesn’t want to do that for a living, but he doesn’t mind, you know, offering advice on how to fix things. But if, if, if they’re like, Oh, it’s too daunting, could you do it? Yeah, we’ll we’ll get it, we’ll do it. But that’s not a part of, fixing it is not a part of the audit. Yeah, so there’s a lot going on with that one.
Jordan Ostroff 35:16
Well, that’s one is where it goes to, you know, how much money is the company willing to throw at fixing the problem?
Patti Brownsword 35:20
Yeah, yeah. And we, what we, the, the general idea is, we don’t want to just keep coming at them being like, well, this will be more money if you do this. And this is gonna be more money if you do this. But like, if you have Salesforce, here’s the, here’s the lesson on that. You need an admin person who really knows it. And I feel like they’ve got one but the person knows, like enough to keep, keep the ship afloat. Right. But you know, I don’t know, car analogies very well but if it’s a, you know.
Jordan Ostroff 35:47
The ship one’s good.
Patti Brownsword 35:48
The ship one’s good. Yeah.
Jordan Ostroff 35:49
You’ve got some holes in the boat.
Patti Brownsword 35:50
Jordan Ostroff 35:50
You know, these seven holes will cost this much, this eighth hole will cost that much. And how many holes do you want to plug as it slowly, slowly sinks.
Patti Brownsword 35:56
Yes. The car one, though, is the, you know, they’ve got five speeds, and they’re keeping it in first gear the whole time. They’re not even taking it to second or third. They’re not building automation practices for their marketing to make life easier for themselves. They’re just keeping it afloat. Car boat combined. Yeah.
Jordan Ostroff 36:16
There we go. We’re mixing metaphors here to solve these problems. So I mean, I get the impression that you’re, you know, looking behind the curtain here for a lot of these businesses. I mean, they’re, they should be sharing everything with you so that you all can decide where the issues are or if there aren’t issues, what, what’s working well?
Patti Brownsword 36:34
Yes, yes. And we sign all the NDA, all the things, it’s a blanket over my contractors, and we have to get behind the curtain, we have to see everything. There, you know, it’s a, if there’s one integral piece of information that we miss then our whole analysis, you know, would be like, oh, well, having known that – oh! You know?
Jordan Ostroff 36:56
Patti Brownsword 36:57
And so it’s important, so, when the kickoff starts, and we start to get all the pieces, we have kind of what we call a product owner, go in, roll up their sleeves and figure out well, how does it all connect? How can it be combined? What does it mean? How does it work? Well, it would be great if we had this. Where is that? How do we find this? So then when our data warehouse people can get in, grab it, scrape it, manipulate it, get into the tables for our analysis people to look at, then we know what we’re, what we’re aiming for.
Jordan Ostroff 37:31
So what are some of the biggest issues that you see companies making? You know, obviously, not collecting the data and not collecting the data effectively but when you’re behind the curtain, I mean, what are some of the common problems that you’re uncovering after those two, those ones? Or is it just so case by case specific?
Patti Brownsword 37:50
Yeah, well, only having been in business for two and a half years and only having had done so many data audits, I can’t say there’s a trend yet. Yeah, every business –
Jordan Ostroff 37:59
You don’t have the three to five hundred data points?
Patti Brownsword 38:00
I don’t have a three to five hundred data points, but with your help. With the show, maybe. But, uh, yeah, it’s, um, it is different case by case. And, and it’s also based on the goals. So right now, you know, we’re working with the CMO. If we were working with the CFO, the goals would be different. If we’re working with the CEO, the goals would be different with our data audit. So it really just, so what we uncover and what the insights are the most important, are definitely relative to the individual also, who signed our contract.
Jordan Ostroff 38:32
Patti Brownsword 38:32
Because we’re trying to also make them look like rock stars. So all of this work, all this behind the curtain, all of this, you know, efforting is really for us to serve the analysis on a platter for them that they can understand and they can get and then they can show off to the people. Thanks, see, wasn’t this worth it? I’ve made these decisions. I’ve made these changes based on this information and now we’re all better.
Jordan Ostroff 38:53
Gotcha. Interesting, so it’s the, you know, it’s different for us, because it’s my wife and I, you know, running the company. But I guess, a lot, so a lot of what you’re doing is okay, the marketing team is doing a good job but the operations team is dropping the ball on these or the finance team, you know, we’re in a good financial position, but we’re not generating enough stuff out of marketing. I mean, it seems like, a lot of it is sort of that internal strife in the business.
Patti Brownsword 39:17
Yes, yes. But the leaders are normally only focused, you know, on one at a time. And so they feel a problem is here, and so we’ll help with that. And then, you know, the, one of them was, you know, was like, well, I don’t care what, you know, these guys are doing, or you know, I don’t, returns? That’s not a problem for me. It’s a problem for the whole company.
Jordan Ostroff 39:45
The bottom line is the bottom line for a reason.
Patti Brownsword 39:46
Jordan Ostroff 39:48
So then I guess, let me, let me phrase the question a little bit differently to see if we get a different answer. What are some of the, you know, red flags or the big indicators that you can really come in and help that a business can sit there with, oh, you know, I am having this problem. Is this the solution to it? Or I am having this issue or I am at this stage of growth?
Patti Brownsword 40:06
John Brownsword 40:11
We can talk about the client who wanted to double within a certain period of time double attendance.
Patti Brownsword 40:17
John Brownsword 40:18
Double attendance at the, at their venue.
Patti Brownsword 40:23
Yeah. That was a big one. Yes. They, they had signed part of the RFP and the contract was that they have to keep, we have to keep increasing their attendance through our efforts. But that was the marketing people talking. And then the actual operations people are like, no, but we’re going under construction next year, how is that a thing that’s going to happen? They’re, they’re too big, they’re not actually talking to each other, or asking what each other wants or what the expectations are. So when we came in, and we’re like, yeah, we can do this, because we can analyze what happened in the past be able to find efficiencies and, and get things better. And then oh, wait, construction? Does, so, do you still want us to do that? Oh, no, no, that’s okay. Well, we now, we could have put an effort on helping you, you know, stem the tide on when the constructions happening
Jordan Ostroff 41:17
Patti Brownsword 41:18
We put all this effort into this. And now you want that, and, okay, so it’s really having all the stakeholders have a game plan. The biggest red flag is when we have one person who is gung-ho for us, and the other person is like, why do we need that again?
Jordan Ostroff 41:40
I can imagine that’s a consistent problem.
Patti Brownsword 41:42
Yeah, less and less like everybody’s starting to get the data thing. But then you have, so we’ll have, we have the kickoff, we’ll look at all the data. And then we’ll come in with a brainstorming because we always feel like we can come up with all the great questions in the world to ask, but if they’re not important to you, than us doing the analysis on answering these questions aren’t going to matter. And so a safety net on the red flag is we’re not going insane. Well, we’re the experts, we know exactly what questions you should be answering. Because it’s, it’s different for everybody. And so having all the stakeholders present, when we’re going through and saying, well, this is the some of the initial things we’ve seen with your data. And so we think we can start to ask these questions. Does that matter to you? Or us coming up with these questions, did it bring insight to these other questions? Like, are you thinking of other questions now that you know what kind of things we can do with your data? Having that upfront is really helpful. Like the first time we did it, we were like, we’re gung-ho, we’ll just, we’ll, we’ll get it done. And we’ll ask all these questions. And, you know, a couple of them were like, so? So what? And it’s the, you know, you have to figure out the with them, the what’s in it for me mentality, but that’s really where the having the different, so it’d be great to have the CFO, CEO and CMO there together, all on the same page, but the you know, hopefully the benefit is if the CMO goes, oh, yes, I learned all of this stuff and it was Data Wonderment, it’s amazing. And the CFO would then say, well, could they do this for me?Yes.
Jordan Ostroff 43:17
So really, I mean, you’re looking for a business that knows it either wants to take the next step or knows it wants to solve a certain problem, but doesn’t know what the most efficient way is to do that?
Patti Brownsword 43:28
Yes, that would be preferable. We’re coming across those that are just saying, I have data, but I don’t even know what I don’t know yet. Could you help with something? That’s that, the vagueness is more difficult. We’d much rather have the other two.
Jordan Ostroff 43:42
Well, I mean, I, you know, I’m just, I’m just happy that we’re moving more towards businesses understanding that they need to be tracking data, big data, because to me, that I think would be the biggest hurdle, at least from who I talked to you. But I guess I’m talking about, you know, most, mostly other attorneys, not actual businesses. Are we the non-traditional businesses?
Patti Brownsword 44:04
Yeah, I would say, lawyers, it’d be a little difficult. But I have had a chat recently with an accountant. And he owns an accounting firm. And he was super jazzed about figuring out how to build a new database with all the disparate pieces he has. Because what he wants to be able to do is that when and so it’s just as simple as helping with the database, I would say is, we can help figure out the best way to store it so that when a new accounting law changes in a year, and it affects this size company with this amount of wealth with this kind of issue, then he can just run a filter query. All the ones pop up so that he can send an email blast to just to them.
Jordan Ostroff 44:59
See, that’s gotta be ideal client, though. You’re being proactive. You know exactly what the problem is. You’re aware of what solution you need to put into place. I mean, that’s, props to that account.
Patti Brownsword 45:09
Yeah. Right. So yeah, I was impressed with his, his ideas. I was like, oh, I would like to, I would like to make that work for you. Can we, can we do this together? That’d be great. So but so, I imagine with, with lawyers, I mean, I don’t know it depends on you know, how many customers you have, if you have five whales, but or 50 minnows, you can do something with the data. But it just depends on whether you need me for it, or you just take me out for a cup of coffee and give me a gift card or something.
Jordan Ostroff 45:39
Okay. Alright, so now that we’ve kind of gotten through, you know, the, the steps that you all take to helping the business, you know, put all the data together, figure out what the problems are, learn from that. Can you give everybody your contact information again?
Patti Brownsword 45:56
Sure. It’s a Patti (with an I) @DataWonderment.com. We got John (J-O-H-N) @DataWonderment.com. DataWonderment.com. All the social media is DataWonderment. Pretty easy to find.
Jordan Ostroff 46:10
All right. So with that, this is probably going to be about the 20th episode of the podcast, still a relatively new podcast. So we’re asking for listeners, hopefully, they’ve enjoyed it, you know, if not my voice at least we’ve got these wonderful guests on for all of them. We’d like an honest review. Hopefully, it’s five stars, you know, we’re on iTunes, Stitcher, Last FM, pretty much anywhere, you know, traditional wonderful podcasts can be found. Then I want to leave you all with the the same way we end all these podcasts. So we’ve talked about a bunch of things. But if somebody takes nothing from this, except what we’re about to talk to now, what is that one biggest piece of advice that you want as many business owners as possible to know. And we’ll get one from each of you.
Patti Brownsword 46:53
It’s not just collecting the data. It’s doing something with it.
Jordan Ostroff 46:58
All right. So not just about the data, but act on it.
Patti Brownsword 47:01
Jordan Ostroff 47:01
All right. And John?
John Brownsword 47:03
I’d say data drives so much of our lives today, it’s, it’s very important to capture data and analyze it, it’s crucial to moving forward in the business world.
Jordan Ostroff 47:16
All right, and it goes back to you know, more is better. Collect it, if you don’t use it, great. You have it, but if you do use it, then you have more data to act properly off of.
Patti Brownsword 47:25
Yes, with that, though, with that though, if you are going to collect something, and it’s weird, or more than what you need, tell your customers why you want it.
Jordan Ostroff 47:36
Yeah we get that all the time about the address stuff. They’re always like, well, are you gonna have the cops like come out if I don’t pay? I’m like, no, no, no, they would take my bar cart so quickly if I did anything along those lines. But it helps us with, you know, what area and certain things and then for us, our credit card processor needs their address as well. So yeah, I can always pon it off on somebody else. But, that is a very good point. All right. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Patti Brownsword 47:59
Jordan Ostroff 48:00
You’ve been listening to “Let’s Get Up to Business” from Jordan Law. We hope you’ve enjoyed the podcast and would consider sharing the show. We would also love an honest five star review through iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or whatever podcatcher you use. If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, please contact Producer Mark through email at [email protected] Use this subject line “podcast guest” in your email. Thank you. We look forward to speaking to you again soon.
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