Phil DuMas of Bellcurve Technology

Big Brothers Big Sisters of Central Florida

Have you ever found a USB stick on the ground and thought “Score!” Well, if you actually plugged that unknown device into your computer, there’s a strong chance you just became the victim of a Phishing attack. it’s tricks like this that Jordan and Phil Dumas discussed in this week’s episode of Let’s Get Up To Business.

Phil is the cofounder of Bellcurve Technology. To call them an IT company would be technically accurate, but a woeful understatement of the work they do for their clients. Basically, if you need to understand some aspect of technology, need help setting up a new office, or have a network that isn’t performing as it should, then you need Phil in your life.

Phil is also a technologist with more than 25 years in the field of developing, prototyping and testing emerging technologies.  He currently holds patents for communicating in dynamic networks (patent number 7,515,560) and peer-to-peer video surveillance (patent number 7,495,687). He currently has six other patents pending in unique applications for software and hardware.

Basically, he’s really smart and wants to help make sure your systems are secured and that your staff knows NOT to plug that USB they found in the parking lot into your network. Take a listen and when you realize you need some help with your systems, give Phil a call.

Episode 30: Phil DuMas of bellcurve Technology – Full Transcript

Phil DuMas 0:00
One of the other taxes really easy that I would say probably everybody in this office would fall for is if I just left a couple of USB drives in the parking lot. Right? Somebody comes walking by and oh my gosh, I just found a USB drive. Well, what’s the first thing you’re going to do? You betcha. And when you plug it in, let me tell you something that’s interesting about USB drives. You plug it into the computer, and the way that Windows seven, eight and a half, which is what we call eight 8.1. And 10 works is when you plug a device and the first thing it does is it says, Do I have this device because every device that gets plugged in it communicates to the computer and it says this is my unique identifier, you ID and it says okay, do I have that in my catalog of installed devices? No. So I’ll go out to the internet and find it. Well, I can’t find the drivers for it on the internet. Do you know the last thing it asks before it says you can’t use it? You want to run it anyway the device itself. Do you have the drivers will have

course I do, oh well here, let me get the drivers from you Mr. device and I’ll just install it. And it’ll list all the device drivers. So then I just have to put like a couple of folders on there to keep you on that thumb drive for, I don’t know, 10 seconds, 20 seconds while the, the programs I want or installing in the background. So I always put stuff like wedding pictures.

Narrator 1:24
Picture a world where costs are down, profits are up, and customers are clamoring at your door you’re listening to let’s get up to business from Jordan. Our interviews with business owners, service providers and area experts can teach you how to create a world of success and profitability. If you’re looking for an attorney to assist in your business formation, employment agreements, or other legal business needs, contact Jordan law

At 40790655 to nine, you can also reach us on the web at Jordan law fl.com.

Jordan law, we protect you and your business.

Jordan Ostroff 2:23
Hello, and welcome to Let’s get up to business with Jordan law. And joining me today is Phil de ma with bell curve technology. Phil is going to talk to us today about Internet Security correct? Yep. Alright, so thank you so much for joining us. Sure. So I’m sure you know, our podcast is geared towards business owners, and I’m sure a million of them heard that internet security and then that back of the head was like, you know, I’ve been wanting to do this for so long, but I haven’t worried about it. So right off the bat, if anybody’s listening what’s the best way for them to contact you?

Phil DuMas 2:51
They can reach us actually just call my cell phone. We give that out more than we do the main number because anybody who calls the office ends up going through the quagmire of

of the phone tag, so just call my cell phone 321231148. And while that may seem a little bit unusual, every single one of our customers have at least two of the engineer cell phones and mine and the other co founder cell phones. So we are all about customer response, customer support being immediate. Well, and I imagine when it’s an emergency, it’s an emergency. It’s always an emergency. Yeah, that’s true. I can’t get my email. It’s an emergency. Alright, so I mean, I guess we probably won’t focus on that. But that does give us a good jumping off point and give us a little bit more information about what technology does. So we provide not just IT support, but specifically, we’re very heavy on the security focus. So all of our employees are prior three letter agencies. A lot of them are still currently active security clearances. All of us have worked for the government at somewhere along the way or been in military service somewhere.

Along the way, I myself ran a government lab for three years and still hold a clearance with SOCOM for doing some of the contract work we do there. So security comes naturally for us. Yeah. So it’s not a lot of other people that go into technology, focus on how to do the technology first. And then security is an add on. And for us, it was inverted. It’s always been hammered into our heads, security, security, security, and then you learn to adapt the technology after the fact, which makes us a little bit different than others. And our approach is completely different. Well, it seems to make it a lot safer. Oh, absolutely. We do. Some project management. We do code review, we do hardware review for some of our customers that have some very high end intellectual property products that they’re developing. And at the end of the day, they trust us enough to say your product is not secure. We can’t put it out yet and they’ll delay the release on a product maybe you know, to the tune of half a million a million dollars, you know is what the delay will cost them but they would rather deliver

That product, then put out a product that they know is going to be compromised almost immediately and cause them bad press. Well, if you’re talking about from a military standpoint could be even worse than just the press coverage? Oh, sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. We do a lot of work. There’s almost every sector that we’re in, we do work in securing some of the larger advertising companies, digital media companies, we do work heavily vested in the medical field. So anything that has to be HIPAA compliant, we work so much hand in hand with them, that’s probably about 60% of our business. We work with a lot in the legal field, we have probably half a dozen attorneys that we work with, and law firms and we work in the accounting field quite a bit as well. And then we get the odd one offs manufacturing here and there things like that.

Jordan Ostroff 5:49
Next question, kind of, you know what markets you’re targeting, but it sounds like it sounds like really anybody who has information stored I guess what on a cloud

Phil DuMas 6:00
stored period period. Yeah.

Jordan Ostroff 6:04
So kind of walk me through a pretend I’m an idiot, which you won’t have to do, it won’t be very difficult. kind of walk me through what are you actually protecting? Like, what is when does a business owner need you?

Phil DuMas 6:19
So everybody is vulnerable from one aspect or another. Let’s just take a law firm, for example, there’s two places right off the bat that I can see that you’re vulnerable from. If you’re on a high profile case, and the opposition wants to break into your server and find out what your strategy is going to be on what you’re coming at them with. That’s an obvious target. The other obvious less obvious to you maybe is your billing.

You know, there’s a very good chance that we could easily infiltrate one of the systems and just redirect your billing for, I don’t know, 1520 days, 30 days to offshore bank account.

And there’s not a lot of business owners that can absorb a 30 or 45 day hit like that. It hurts

We’ve even had a group of cardiologists that called us because something like that happened to them. And you would think a group of cardiologists that are, you know, doing pretty well for themselves, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I mean, it was $172,000. And it was redirected and it was over 1618 day period.

It had devastating effects on them.

Jordan Ostroff 7:22
So that would be somebody hacking into their systems, and then rerouting where their payments from their processing are growing,

Phil DuMas 7:28
you got it, it’s something that you wouldn’t really expect. So somebody could, you know, just plant a little bit of spyware on a computer, see what your QuickBooks login is if you’re using something like that, and go in and change the routing number on the for all the deposits.

Jordan Ostroff 7:43
So this isn’t even, I guess, a situation like that you’re not even protected by having a larger company do the actual billing because if they’re getting the login, then they’re not really getting through, right?

Phil DuMas 7:55
You got it. Matter of fact, if I was looking at it, and I knew so let’s let’s take a minute whole company, for example, if I started doing my due diligence on a medical company, and I figured out that they were using another billing company, I would actually see that as their Achilles heel. And I would go after the billing company, because if I went after the billing company, and I was the hacker, there’s a good chance I’m not just going to get that one medical company, I’m going to get 60 and that’s just a panacea. Right? That’s, that’s, that’s the golden ring. You get 60 companies, you revert those funds for 10 days, seven days at a 60 companies. Yeah, you did pretty well. It’s probably a million dollars. Wow. Yeah. Trust me. I’ve already considered the fact that if I went to the dark side, I’d be much wealthier, and I would not be here. I would be on some personally owned Island somewhere.

Jordan Ostroff 8:45
Well, what’s the what’s the age old joke? You know, they say that criminals are idiots, but really, it’s only the ones that get caught.

Phil DuMas 8:51
Know how I’ve never heard that. That’s good. That’s good.

Jordan Ostroff 8:54
Look, somewhere out there. There’s a there’s a bunch of people with a ton of money that were never found

Phil DuMas 8:59
true. And that doesn’t even

Jordan Ostroff 9:01
have to be DB Cooper. So I guess, you know, look on my knowledge of, you know, hacking is, you know, bad TV shows or video games or whatnot, like what you’re talking about. I mean, that seems to be different than what I’m picturing, right. I mean, that’s somebody sending a fake email attachment or something along those lines.

Phil DuMas 9:21
That’s right. So the common stuff is phishing, right? So I send a phishing email. And, you know, it’s not like it’s a blind phishing email either, because companies are proud of their employees. As the company grows, they’ll be like, oh, and look, this is our new CFO, or our Director of accounting or something like that, and I’ll put out announcements. And the announcements usually come out and they give the person’s name and most email addresses or first initial last name. So right off the bat, just a little bit of research, say 10 or 15 minutes worth of research, you have the email address of the person that you want to fish. And then after that, you just come at it from 75 or 100 different ways every month until they click on the wrong email. That’s really what we call the easy way. That’s the low hanging fruit. And the only way to stop that is educating your employees. Don’t click on things you don’t know. We also see where the crooks are not stupid. They’ll actually watch and see and they’ll watch your account. And they’re like, oh, look Jordans on vacation Jordans down to the Bahamas. So this is a perfect time for us to send to mark an email and say, Mark, hey, I’m down here and I need you to send money to this account. Right now we broke a boat or something, we have to give them $5,000. Here, they’re going to put us in jail. And Mark would immediately if Mark was your CFO, or whatever Mark would immediately be like, Oh, crap, I gotta help the boss. And he immediately jumps on it and does it. We see that all the time, all the time. And, you know, everybody’s like, well, there’s got to be a solution to this. There’s got to be some way we can fix this. There’s got to be some high tech. If you want to stop that kind of thing. Agree to a code word in the office and rotate at once every 16 And that code word says if I’m asking for money to go someplace, the word turtle will be somewhere in the message. And then 60 days later you rotate it now it’s going to be dolphin that’s in the message, or pizza, whatever you want it to be. But if they get an email saying you need to send money to this, and the word that you guys are chosen for that 60 day period is not in there. You know, somebody fishing you.

Jordan Ostroff 11:24
And obviously that code word, don’t send that an email to everybody.

Phil DuMas 11:27
Right? So you basically it’s funny because one of the very large, half a billion dollar a year insurance companies that we work with, they deliver it on the first day of every month, they change it every every 30 days. And it’s literally one Secretary delivers it to 64 people on a sticky note, okay, walks into their office, puts it on the monitor, and I’ve got to applaud them because it’s almost impossible to hack that, right. I mean, it’s beautiful. its simplicity, at its best, and if she’s sick, okay, somebody else make up the word right? It’s just it’s it’s things like that, that people just never think of, and it’ll save you, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run.

Jordan Ostroff 12:07
Yeah, we had one with one of our former attorneys where the like, it seemed to come for me. It was like, Oh, we’ve got I need seven Apple gift cards for 100 bucks to send to some clients or whatever. And of course, the attorney was like, sends me a text message that goes, Hey, you know, did you send this because it doesn’t sound like you. And I was like, yeah, cuz they sound a lot nicer.

Unknown Speaker 12:28
So that’s,

Jordan Ostroff 12:30
that’s my defense mechanism. My emails are very short and carbon to the point.

Phil DuMas 12:35
Yeah, the apple gift cards. A lot of times what they’ll do is they’ll have somebody buy the apple gift cards, and then scratch off the little number in the back and give it to them right. And then by the time you realize Wait a second, I just basically gave this guy my credit card and the three digit code for the back of it is too late. They’ve emptied them now. There is a I hate to pick on Walmart but they have a banking system and it’s called the go bank. geo. And a lot of times what we’re seeing because the banking laws, and one of the West Coast countries or one of the, what’s called the country, one of the West Coast states is very lacks, you can pretty much call your name whatever you want, you can go get a state ID for it and go open up a bank account. And people are stealing those gift cards. They’re doing the wire transfers and everything else. And they’re having it sent to that go bank account, I would say roughly 30% of the fraud that we’re seeing is going to go bank accounts in California.

Jordan Ostroff 13:33
And anything can open up in the

Phil DuMas 13:35
new got it if you’re going to deny me an open bank account at Walmart because you know, I don’t have a good enough ID Well, if I’m an undocumented person here, then that’s discrimination which would be big, big, big deal ends in California you get sued all day long for that. So they don’t turn them down period. They will not. So this is being exploited by some of the bad guys a lot of the bad guys and as soon as the Money hits an account be transferred offshore, where you’ll never see it again.

Jordan Ostroff 14:03
See, because that that sort of goes into my random business law hypothetical is, you know, you have you open up a company, you have to have a Registered Agent, you have to have owners, what would happen if you opened up to LLCs, or whatever companies at the exact same time and listen each other as the hundred percent owner of the other one because it’d be legal entities as long as it hit by the time they check one, the other ones in and then now you’d have to, you know, Shadow corporations that don’t actually have anybody because they’re just registered to each other. And you don’t even have to go that far.

Phil DuMas 14:33
Oh, yeah, it’s not earlier. So you mean you’re going way too deep on this, you know, think about

things that you can open up with little to no exposure, right. So never going in front of a person never having anything notarized never having anything like that done. And basically just making it where you can open up an account, maybe a person goes in in person to it, but that person’s got a stack of IDs 30 deep in their pocket. And as soon as that Id is used for opening the account, they burn it, they’re done, it’s over. And they just do everything online from them, they turn the accounts over. And then the money goes, wherever the money goes, can be turned into bitcoin, it can go to the Ukraine. It can go to Russia, you know, lots of places that money can go.

Jordan Ostroff 15:16
See, this is fascinating to me. I mean, it’s the, you know, deep down inside, all of us want to pretend that, you know, if we had to go on the lam, we’d be great at it. But

Unknown Speaker 15:25
now you wouldn’t.

Jordan Ostroff 15:26
Well, I’m gonna call you I got I got your cell phone. So because I feel I’m gone.

Phil DuMas 15:30
So I gave a speech several years back at Stetson University. And it was called so you want to be a dark web drug lord. And basically, it explored

Jordan Ostroff 15:40
everybody had to kindness, right, like, what’s a better puff line?

Phil DuMas 15:44
Oh, it was awesome. Well, we had to have all kinds of releases signed, or we could do anything because you know, when you go into the dark web, it truly is the underbelly of the world. It’s not just the internet is the world you see the worst of the worst on the dark web and It was basically it was telling these people who think that they know what they’re doing because they bought a half a Bitcoin and now they’re Bitcoin millionaires or something and they think that they know the internet, you haven’t even scratched the surface. You know, for every legitimate person out there, there’s 10,000 illegitimate people out there that are out to do nothing, but you know, screw you and your company over. So it was an interesting speech. It hit a little too hard home. When we started, we did it in a small auditorium. We had about 30 or 40 people that were in attendance. 30 minutes into it. We had 140 people. And by the time we ended, the auditorium that held 140 people was over full and there was people standing in the hallway listening is over 300 people

Jordan Ostroff 16:43
just because everybody’s like, you got to come.

Phil DuMas 16:45
Yeah, exactly. I mean, this the whole thing was supposed to last about 90 minutes, right? And three and a half hours later, I had to cut it because my voice was giving out. Everybody had so many questions, and we literally had a live feed into the internet into the dark web going on the screen. Behind me, and I had somebody that would type in what I would told him and we would start trolling through the internet. And at one point, I challenged the audience to name one thing that I couldn’t find on the dark web. And I found everything that they named, some of it was just nuts. Crazy. What about like, just like

Jordan Ostroff 17:16
head of lettuce?

Phil DuMas 17:18
You can find that on the internet itself, you know, dark web for that. I’m talking about the crazy stuff, right? Like two pounds of fish flake heroin for my Ram. I got you covered no problem.

Jordan Ostroff 17:29
Saturday from Iran. Yeah. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 17:32
Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Ostroff 17:34
Yeah. I’m fascinated. I’m retroactively aggravated. I didn’t.

Phil DuMas 17:39
You know, we’re talking about doing an Ask me anything in February. So there’s a very good chance that we’ll do it again.

Jordan Ostroff 17:47
Or what I mean, I guess you have to do it in person. You’d be like a Facebook guy. No. Well,

Phil DuMas 17:51
there’s somebody asked if they can stream me and I said, Sure. No problem, but doing it in person has quite the impact. Yeah. Because you have to interact, because you know, we do a lot of stuff on our computers and from behind our computer screens where we’re missing a huge portion of that person face to face. Body language, like just now, and I use my hands in an exploitative way and you’re nodding. You don’t get that when it’s you know, Facebook Live where it’s only one person seen from the other side, there’s no feedback, that feedback helps to drive those conversations.

Jordan Ostroff 18:24
I mean, I’m just imagining like a 15 minute video though you like Sean people at darkweb? Could we go so viral? Because like everybody, like I watch Mr. Robot. I mean, that’s really my understanding of what you’re talking about. Lord knows, I don’t know how exactly it

Phil DuMas 18:41
is. So back to your original question on you know, what your concept of hacking was fishing is the easiest to do. That’s just a phishing attack. One of the other attacks it’s really easy that I would say probably everybody in this office would fall for is if I just left a couple of USB drives in the parking lot. Right, somebody comes walking by and oh my gosh, I just found a USB drive. Well, what’s the first thing you’re going to do? You betcha. Yeah. And when you plug it in, let me tell you something that’s interesting about USB drives. You plug it into the computer. And the way that Windows seven, eight and a half, which is what we call eight 8.1. And 10 works is when you plug a device and the first thing it does is it says, Do I have this device? Because every device that gets plugged in, it communicates to the computer and it says, This is my unique identifier, you ID. And it says, Okay, do I have that in my catalog of installed devices? No. So I’ll go out to the internet and find it. Well, I can’t find the drivers for it on the internet. Do you know the last thing it asks before it says you can’t use it? You want to run it anyway, the device itself? Do you have the drivers? Well, of course I do. Oh well here let me get the drivers from you Mr. device, and I’ll just install it and it’ll list all the device drivers. So then I just have to put like a couple of folders on there to keep you on that thumb drive for, I don’t know, 10 seconds, 20 seconds while the programs I want or installing in the background. So I always put stuff like wedding night pictures. You put something juicy in there like last year’s tax returns wedding night picture, lots of stuff that you can think of video, looking at the dark web or personal, just personal right and then it just embed 15 layers of nothing but folders, and then put a text file at the bottom and it says by the time you’ve gotten to this, I already have your computer.

Jordan Ostroff 20:33
I’m both excited and terrified that you’re here and we’re friends.

Phil DuMas 20:40
According to a few of our mutual friends, it’s a good thing to have me as a friend. Yeah, it’s a really bad thing to have me as an enemy. Yes,

Jordan Ostroff 20:45
definitely. Yeah, yeah. Alright, so we’ve got the USD stuff, we’ve got the fishing stuff. I mean, what

Phil DuMas 20:51
else ransomware so horrible nowadays.

Jordan Ostroff 20:54
And that’s the like I have a video of you touching yourself. Sure for money will send it

Phil DuMas 20:59
or so. The one that’s going around right now that is most common is the one that says, we have we we broke into a porn site and we have pictures of you pleasuring yourself. And just to prove it, here’s your username and password. And people don’t realize that Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, everybody’s been hacked at this point Dropbox. So I can go on the internet right now. And I can buy a list of roughly 240 million user IDs and passwords and it’ll cost me about $300.

Jordan Ostroff 21:29
Those would be at the time that they were hacked,

Phil DuMas 21:31
right. But you know, how many people use the same username and password over and over and over again?

Jordan Ostroff 21:38
Not me,

Phil DuMas 21:38
right? Yes, we don’t do right. Got it. Got it. Marcus, pointing at me. Yes. So if I send an email to you, and it says, Listen, I hate to destroy your life. But I’ve got this picture of you pleasuring yourself in front of your computer, and here’s the username, the password you used on the site? Yes. It’s got just enough believability because you’ve got my username and password to scare me it. Really if all you’re asking for 250 or $300, there’s a good chance if I’m a doctor or lawyer, a professional that doesn’t need that kind of exposure. Pun intended, then I am going to pay for it solid. Listen, you did the DB Cooper reference, so I had to throw something in.

Jordan Ostroff 22:23
But like, but they’re not actually posting this because they don’t

Phil DuMas 22:26
know they don’t have it. No, no, it’s all it’s all scare tactic.

Jordan Ostroff 22:29
Or you’re you’re hitting a million people for 10s of millions

Phil DuMas 22:34
10s of millions. Yeah. So if you got and how much does it cost to send an email? Nothing, right. So it’s, it’s, and really and I hate to say this, but you know, these there’s internet cafes and like Nigeria, Somalia, places where people don’t make a living at all, or they make $20 a month. And these people will sit in these internet cafes 3640 15 hours at a time doing nothing but sending these out. And if they get one person to respond, they’ve made 10 times what they wouldn’t the entire month. Oh, yeah. So for their economy, it’s huge. I saw an interesting graphic. There’s a great online website called the CIA factbook, and it truly is run by the CIA. And it basically breaks down revenue generation by country.

Jordan Ostroff 23:24
Oh, yeah. It’s got the capital the GDP, right.

Phil DuMas 23:27
Yeah. So the the latest numbers for Somalia show that fishing expeditions and Computer Fraud now are making up a significant portion of the country’s

Jordan Ostroff 23:37
GDP. I mean, it’s safer than

Phil DuMas 23:40
robbing the crew. Or the drug lords. Oh, yeah, sure. So scary. The last type of computer attacks are the most rare. That’s the ones where you’ve got to have a pretty high skill set. And you have to know how to break into websites and what’s behind the websites. You have to know how to target. If you are going to go after a medical billing company, you would have to do your research. And it can take months to do that. And you would know everything about that medical billing company. And you would know everything about the employees and you would know everything about their birth dates and their kids and the kids birthdays. And you would start generating random usernames and passwords to try against that no knowledge. If there was a place that you could log into it from outside, on the internet, if there’s not, then you have to do a physical exploitation where you’re dropping off USB keys, or do you have to do a physical exploitation where you’re breaking into their Wi Fi at night, and trying to get into their servers, the determined person will find a way in unless you are very, very good. We have a saying in the industry that says you have to be perfect all the time. And the bad guys only have to get lucky once,

Jordan Ostroff 24:51
right? Like that.

Phil DuMas 24:53
So it’s very difficult to be perfect all the time.

Jordan Ostroff 24:57
So I mean, so there’s really not one where somebody Sitting there, the login screen and it’s trying, you know, 100 million different combinations of passwords.

Phil DuMas 25:05
So that’s called a brute force attack. And almost every operating system and exposed website in the world has a protection against that that says, once you try more than five times I lock you out for 30 minutes. Gotcha. So that’s, it’s, it’s really unusual to find one that’s not protected that way. You can you know, if you I’m sure you’ve seen it on your own email, you put in your own email five times wrong one, and it tells you come back later and try again.

Jordan Ostroff 25:30
Right? Well, I had to shut off the my phone deleting because my Kindle, just sit there and hit the keypad. And I’m like, I don’t want to delay our entire phone. And yeah, and times, although now that I got to the six digit PIN code, he won’t get to six digits, I’ll get to four with no problem. So I can usually grab them there, right? Yep. Alright, so I mean, that’s, I guess that’s both better and worse. I mean, really, you know, there’s not just people sitting out there randomly trying to crack another website. I mean, they’re doing it They’re either fishing with everybody randomly or if they’re going after you directly. I mean, they’ve really done enough research that

Phil DuMas 26:07
it’s expensive to go after you directly. Okay? So it’s, it’s expensive. It’s basically spending months doing nothing but researching that individual that individuals, family, the employees, it is really not something that you see very often. All hacking comes down to one of two things love or money and love. Of course, the inverse of that is hate. So if you make somebody mad enough, they’re going to come after you. The money side of it is what kind of protects us, you know, one of the biggest foreign actors that are out there that the bad actors, as we call them, is the North Koreans followed by the Russians. And the Russian mafia is notorious for building all these viruses to try and take down people’s computers are in fact their computers or infiltrate their computers and We just attended a talk at the FBI infragard over in Tampa, and one of the speakers there made a statement that was kind of astounding, he said, there’s two types of people in this world. Those who know their computers are hacked, and those who have no clue that that they’ve already happened. And that’s a that’s if you think about it. Now, that’s, that’s a pretty narrow perspective and not one that I necessarily subscribe to. And I’m going to make a statement that’s going to make some people upset. But I’m not here to make friends. The best and brightest don’t work for the government and technology, period. I see guys that work for the FBI love them work with them quite often. As a matter of fact, same with the secret service work with the Secret Service down in South Florida in Central Florida a lot, especially on large scale, credit card frauds and things like that. And I can tell you that I don’t understand how they Do it they’re making $78,000 a year and for the work that they’re doing, they’d be making 250 300 in the open market. So they have to be doing it for love of country, or they have a very narrow skill set. There’s a couple of them that I’ve met, and we’ve met a lot. There’s a couple that are doing it for the country.

Jordan Ostroff 28:23
I mean, that’s what was the state attorney before I ran this firm. And I mean, that was the same thing as you had the you had the people there because they didn’t want to work hard enough to go elsewhere. But you also have the people there that just so genuinely loved the work woke up every morning. Like I’m protecting, you know, Orange County, and came in you know, there was no amount of money that would be that would outweigh that for them. So

Phil DuMas 28:44
sure, but those are few and far between compared to the other ones.

Jordan Ostroff 28:49
Certainly, yes. And certainly now you know, eight years later, there’s there’s that many fewer people that are that have been there that long. Yeah, just It’s okay, so we’ve got The different 10,000 foot view of what the hacking looks like, from a business owners perspective, though, I mean, what are the steps for them to take to prevent those things? Or is it you know, bringing a company like he will,

Phil DuMas 29:13
they can do a lot of things themselves. Like I said, the code word, you don’t need me to implement that. You can do that on common sense, right? I think you guys are pretty much capable of just writing the word on a sticky note. So we are paperless though, then you’re screwed. It has to be like not have. Oh, that’s See that’s what you want to avoid. We do have we do have, oh, we have one person that has sticky notes. So see, you’re saved, you’re good. There’s a lot of common sense things, but there are best practices that are implementable that are not going to break the bank for any size company. using encryption is one of my favorite things. We use encryption on almost everything. Windows 10 professional comes with BitLocker encryption already built into it. It’s free, and there’s almost zero impact on perfect And it takes 3045 seconds to turn it on. And then if your laptop gets stolen, which happens, this is the prime time. When is this going to be published?

Jordan Ostroff 30:11
That’s good question probably in three to three weeks.

Phil DuMas 30:14
Okay. So then this, it’s still pertinent. The holidays, when people go straight from work to the mall, and they leave their stuff in the back of the car, they think they put it in the trunk, and it’s safe. You know, your laptop gets stolen, and it’s not encrypted. You’ve got a lot of problems on your hands immediately. Because if you think about it, you’ve got email passwords in there, you’ve got all kinds of things that are cached in the browser, and the applications that know all your information. Same thing with your phone, you know, but if we encrypt it, then it’s just somebody stole my thousand dollar laptop.

Jordan Ostroff 30:45
When you say encrypted, I mean, you’re talking about just a password, you’re talking about something more than that.

Phil DuMas 30:49
So when you turn on encryption, it’ll ask you to either put in a PIN code or a password. We like the pin codes, if they’re six digits or longer, and we like passwords that are rather difficult. We look for something that’s Probably 1112 characters, alphanumeric, okay, great if you could put a special character in there like an exclamation point or an add sign or dollar sign instead of an S. But just turning on encryption in your office, it’s amazing. A lot of people say, Well, you know what, I don’t take my computer home because it’s a desktop and it sits right there in my office. You people think that smash and grab doesn’t happen in an office building, right? And it does, it’s actually happens every year quite a bit. And it’s the exact same thing. You know, if you’ve got that hard drive encrypted, and they grab it, they’re not getting anything from it, period. Your data stay safe, you have to replace a computer and whatever window they broke, but that’s a lot easier to do than it is to start changing everything that that computer had access to.

Jordan Ostroff 31:46
Right. Which actually, so I’ve got an interesting story. I had a I had an iPad stolen out of my car once, and the idiots didn’t turn off my Photo Stream. And so I started getting pictures on My photostream Oh, my stuff. And so is that the prosecutor’s office? So I contacted one of my, you know, op ed detectives I had on one of my cases, I was like, Hey, I got some more work for you. You know, here’s this. Here’s this girl in a Oakridge High School cheerleading costume. Here’s her, you can see it with my phone with the selfie in the mirror and everything. So I’m going over there got my stuff back from it, thank God. I mean, I had nothing like all of our stuff was we had a VPN and with all that, so they got into the tablet, but it was just had, you know, photos and whatever on it. So

Phil DuMas 32:32
yeah, that’s lucky. You see if it was encrypted, they could have done nothing with it, but I’ll get into it at all.

Jordan Ostroff 32:40
Well, but then I wouldn’t got my stuff back.

Phil DuMas 32:43
Depends on what they would have done with it, you know, because now that the Find your iPhone, find your iPad and all that other stuff. a fair amount of those probably 40 50% of the ones that are encrypted, end up in a dumpster someplace nearby. And they realized I can’t break into him. Yep. Because now it’s in possession of stolen property that they really can’t do. Anything with so they get rid of it pretty quick.

Jordan Ostroff 33:03
So like with a laptop or something like that they can just swap out the hard drive, right?

Phil DuMas 33:07
Yep, they can swap out the hard drive, your data stays safe that they can swap out the drive. Unless it’s an apple that’s a little bit more difficult, a little bit more involved, but they can still do it there as well.

Jordan Ostroff 33:16
That’s interesting. I wasn’t thinking about yet to find my, by my

Phil DuMas 33:21
go find your laptop to that works for any Windows or Linux operating system. Interesting.

Jordan Ostroff 33:27
Okay, so we’ve got the encrypter stuff, have the passcode I mean, what else?

Phil DuMas 33:33
It depends on the environment. I mean, you know, obviously Wi Fi is a big deal. Everybody uses it, it’s ubiquitous. You’d be amazed at how many people still don’t use the proper encryption on Wi Fi. You know, WPA PS k type two and everybody just went okay, he lost me. If you go into any Wi Fi router, even what you’re using at home, you’ll see it as an option. And basically it just says you’re putting in a passphrase and you know, so it’s the login passphrase for the Wi Fi having that stead of web because there’s an amazing amount of places that still use web wireless equivalency protocol. Web can be broken in about 90 seconds

Jordan Ostroff 34:09
by brute force. Yep. Gotcha. Okay.

Phil DuMas 34:11
Yep. So the problem with it more technical than you probably want to know. But the problem with it is is a web uses a recycled algorithm. So it tries a certain amount, thousands of key combinations and then it starts recycling through them. So all you have to do is you hit it two or 300 times a second with these key combinations until you see your recycle the first time and you can break it that way.

Jordan Ostroff 34:34
So WPA do

Phil DuMas 34:37
you have that one does not all right. So wireless is a big deal. We don’t want you to turn your wireless off we just want you to make sure it’s secure.

Jordan Ostroff 34:45
So hold on, let me jump in there. So we are thing though, is you know, we want clients have access to the internet here.

Phil DuMas 34:55
Documents and whatever like a guest access. Yeah. Okay. Do you have it secured or is it just open?

Jordan Ostroff 35:00
We haven’t secured perfect but what I’m but is there a way? Is there a safe way for companies to do it where they can separate?

Phil DuMas 35:08
Yeah. Oh yeah, almost every access point worth of salt has a way to offer a guest access that basically completely segments everything out all the way from the Wi Fi connection all the way through to the firewall and out to the internet.

Jordan Ostroff 35:20
And but still don’t have it unsecured just make it you know,

Phil DuMas 35:23
Jordan long gas

Jordan Ostroff 35:24
You got it, which is not our password. Our password is incredibly complicated, and I don’t remember it off the top my

Phil DuMas 35:29
head anymore. You want me to get it for you? To me a few minutes.

Jordan Ostroff 35:33
Actually. Great. All right. 10 minutes. I don’t remember it. I know. I sort of know what it is, but I can’t find it. Okay. to our benefit, I think

Phil DuMas 35:46
Yo, so the environment also might include like having a server, right. So how do you protect the data that’s on the server. And one of the things that you’ve got to start weighing and balancing is, it’s great to have something that’s so secure. It’s great to have a security But when you start securing it to the point where it’s unusable, then it’s a moot point. So you’ve got to balance the security and the accessibility. We have doctors that are so paranoid that they don’t want any outside access whatsoever coming into their offices from the outside. And then they complain because they can’t work on the weekends on their notes. And we tell them, we can do a VPN that’s very secure from the outside in, and you can get to your notes. I’m worried about that. I don’t want to do that. Right. Okay, then go to the office. It’s it’s really becomes a balancing act. And there’s lots of ways to make it secure, but so usable.

Jordan Ostroff 36:39
And so what about people using, you know, third party software, so case management systems, client, relationship managers, things like that?

Phil DuMas 36:46
Sure. So if you’re talking about like, like in the medical field, there’s electronic health records and EMR that helps them track everything. There’s probably half a dozen really big names out there. Y’all You should always have a business associate agreement with any company that you are entrusting your data to, period. And that ba basically ties that company to treat that data as as if it was their own. Okay. And it usually outlines any kind of financial penalties if they fail to do so. In the medical world, it’s you cover the cost of the HIPAA breach that I’m going to have to report because you lost my data. And that gets really expensive. For the typical breach, that’s 10,000 people. It’s probably around 50 $60,000. To start with, because you have to take out an ad in the paper, you have to put up a website you have to put send out mailers to all of them is $60,000 to start to address a HIPAA breach. Gotcha. Okay to start.

Jordan Ostroff 37:48
And that’s nothing being paid to the people who

Phil DuMas 37:51
Oh, no, no, no, that’s not credit monitoring or any of that kind of thing new and that certainly isn’t the finance that you’re going to be paying OCR later on down the road. The Office of Civil Rights who enforces the HIPAA laws is notorious is the word I’m going to choose because I have to work with them.

Jordan Ostroff 38:11
No, but I mean, it makes sense. That’s, there’s that the great that Apple commercial they have they came out now that’s like you have more, you know, private information on your phone, and you do in your home, you’ve got the photos, you’ve got the logins you got. I mean, it’s so true. Sure. And that’s, that’s really all we have now is our is our private information that isn’t really private anymore.

Phil DuMas 38:30
And you would be amazed at how many of these doctors run around that access their EMR online. And they don’t secure their phones properly. They don’t have a PIN code, they don’t have at least a fingerprint. Now, if I have the choice between the two, a six digit pin or a fingerprint, I’m going to take the pin every time much, much more difficult. Apple when they first came out with the fingerprint was too hard. And they backed off on the algorithm. It had an 80% failure rate. And right now the algorithm sits at about 63 64% failure rate

Jordan Ostroff 39:01
What about the face ID

Phil DuMas 39:04
pretty much the same as the fingerprint.

Jordan Ostroff 39:06

Phil DuMas 39:08
Pretty much the same as the fingerprint

whatever you want to do really

Jordan Ostroff 39:14
well I use my phone a lot at night or early in the morning before the sun well I guess the sun comes up now way too early but you know a couple weeks ago at a normal time and he like wouldn’t find my face I’m like all right, you know it’s not bright enough

Phil DuMas 39:28
so just get up later.

Jordan Ostroff 39:30
problem solve a child so Oh, okay, having a 20 well wait a second alarm clock you can’t set

Phil DuMas 39:37
if you’re getting up that early is to be with the child Why are you on your phone? Because the mark Are you understanding any of this? I’m not Yeah, no. Okay.

Jordan Ostroff 39:44
No phones like feed the child now don’t kill him Don’t

Unknown Speaker 39:47
Oh, okay. It’s

Jordan Ostroff 39:48
got all the rules on it. Got it.

Phil DuMas 39:50
Got it. You got a little calendar things that change diaper. Yeah, see, that works.

Jordan Ostroff 39:55
Now we in all joking aside, we had the my wife had the Wonder weeks out for a while. I don’t know. If you’re for No, it basically like they statistically figured out when children understand certain things. And so it’s like, oh, this week, they’ll start seeing more than six feet away from their face. And this week, they’ll start recognizing colors and whatever. Well, it tracks for about a year and a half. And it was pretty on within, you know, within a week or so someone’s like, Oh, he’s being a jerk today. It’s not me, it’s, you know, he could get a headache now, or, you know, whatever.

Phil DuMas 40:26
But anyway, alright, so I’m just thinking about the data retention. So for a year and a half, those people got an amazing amount of data on your child that will never go away. Well, no,

Jordan Ostroff 40:36
no, we didn’t enter anything. So I don’t know. They had to do this study beforehand. So for us, all you have is it’s basically like, it’s, it’s almost like they give you a calendar that says, expect these things this week. And so and it’s not even you’re not even checking that they got it back. You’re not you’re not taking pictures of your kid. I mean, there’s no, at least for our end, there was no data coming back to them. They just run this study on so many kids. Get it. Get on.

Phil DuMas 41:01
So but now they know that you have a child of about their right approximate age. Oh yeah, probably Yeah. And that’s where they start the extrapolation from CS. It used to be illegal to save any date on anybody under the age of 18. Right without parental consent.

Jordan Ostroff 41:15
Well, that’s YouTube’s gone through that now with all the unboxing video,

Phil DuMas 41:18
what was what’s the number now? It’s not 18 anymore. 12 1313 Okay. 13. And there’s a movement afoot for 11. So basically, what they’re doing is they’re gathering all this information, because they know by the time they’re 1213 years old, their preferences in life are pretty much set, right? I mean, you could probably name one or two foods that you now like that you didn’t like, since you were 13 years old, but the rest of your preferences in life are really already set, I would say roughly 80% now there’s a lot of life you haven’t experienced yet. And there’s makeup for most of the other 20%

Jordan Ostroff 41:54
I mean, I eat vegetables now. I don’t really like them now, but I brought that up by myself.

Phil DuMas 42:02
So yeah, I think you’re dead on personal choice. Well, but how about, you know, target was letting women know that they were pregnant before they found out? You hear about that one? Oh, they absolutely do. You know, speaking of target, you know, target had their data breach A while back. Do you know how that happened? I’m going to guess because all their passwords were target. Nope. They were putting in a new air conditioning system. Okay. And while they were putting in the new air conditioning system, they had to put in the digital thermometers, which by the way, were never controlled in the store. So if you walk into a target, you’re like, why is it so cold in here is because somebody up in Cleveland, Ohio thinks it should be. So they would walk into the Oval go into the store, they put in all these new digital thermometers for new air conditioning system, and they left no passwords on them. And they put them on the backbone network. So somebody found their way in through the portal for the air conditioner, and realize, wow, we’re in targets, store network. And after that, things went downhill pretty quick. They were in there for months to nine months. 10 months. They were there a long time. We call that a advanced persistent threat a PT?

Jordan Ostroff 43:05
Oh, I was gonna say

Phil DuMas 43:08
know that too. Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. But yeah a PT for sure guys have a better acronym. It’s not mine it belongs to the military.

Jordan Ostroff 43:16
Gotcha. So alright so any other you know quick hitter things that business owners can do.

Phil DuMas 43:25
anti virus is huge. Okay, especially for the ransomware. Most of the anti viruses have anti ransomware in them. We use almost exclusively one called Avast a VST. And the reason we use it is because there’s an interesting backstory to it that somebody can Google if they want to. But I can tell you that in seven years, we’ve never had to an install ransomware from a computer that’s running from a vast and we’ve never had to recover from a virus that’s running from a vast so it’s been that good. We use it on our own home At home personal computers even.

Jordan Ostroff 44:04
Didn’t say is that means he’s had to do it on every other virus program but

Phil DuMas 44:08
you know, yeah. Hypothetically speaking. Yes. And hypothetically speaking, there are some that if you do a little research you’ll find out or not not acting in your best interest because they’re not built, made maintained in this country.

Jordan Ostroff 44:27
Gotcha. See, that would that’s the ransomware right there. Let’s ransomware the free virus protection light from day one. Yeah. Interesting.

Phil DuMas 44:37
Or, you know, if I’m sending updates to virus protection, oh, yeah, it’s free. There’s nothing free in this world. A long time ago, I heard a statement on the internet on one of the podcasts and it was if you didn’t pay for the product, you are the product Yes. Oh, yeah. So you know, when somebody says oh my gosh, look, it’s free. ransomware even Avast which is free to home users. You can go in and you can disable the The data compilation that they do. So that’s another reason we like it, you can opt out of all the data collection. Some of the other ones that are out there, you know, people put apps on their phone. And as soon as you see that you’re wanting to put a flashlight app on your phone and it wants access to your contact list. Your camera and your GPS. Hello, right. It’s a flashlight. Just Just a little bit of, you know, oh, it’s gotta be okay. It was in the Play Store. No,

Narrator 45:27

Jordan Ostroff 45:28
Well, I think I love the thing where, you know, it’s like the Declaration of Independence is like 17 pages long, but the apple and user licensing agreement is

Phil DuMas 45:36
like 135 pages. Oh, absolutely. And Microsoft is just as bad. Yeah,

Jordan Ostroff 45:41
yep. So you can create an entire country with a 10th the paperwork? Sure.

Phil DuMas 45:46

Jordan Ostroff 45:48
So what I mean I guess that’s you know, I we can probably keep talking about this the whole rest of the day about some of these little things. But I guess really, it just comes back to these people want the information to make money. To have leverage something along those lines, right? I mean, you got it. I’m assuming, you know, or you know, you talked about the the love and hate thing, but I’m assuming people aren’t really hacking into a law office or medical office because they love the doctor lawyer or hate them.

Phil DuMas 46:14
Well, so if they if they hate the ones that are doing it, yes, they you know, that’s, that’s typically you got to have motivation, right. And there’s two, that’s the two strongest motivators there are love and hate. And if somebody let’s say that you help represent a client for medical malpractice, and the doctor got put out of business for it, I mean, let’s say they deserved it. You know, that Dr. Son who might be an MIT graduate might decide he’s going to take it upon himself and do a little vigilante justice for what he thinks is should be done. So you know, that would be something where he introduced ransomware to the entire office, but there was never any unlock for it is just you’ve lost everything. And a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, well, I’ve got it in one drive. I’ve got it in Dropbox or I’ve got an inbox. I’m saying safe. That’s not necessarily true. We’ve seen one, just in the last few months that has evolved where it is encrypting the data. In those. If you have the application that syncs your desktop to the dropbox folder, it will encrypt that data and that folder is scary. Yeah, this is the first time that that’s ever happened. This is the first we’ve been working on that for probably two and a half months now.

Jordan Ostroff 47:29
Yeah, I mean, imagine, you know, for our business owners out there, imagine this tomorrow to walk in and have all of your data locked and not able to access anything on any clients, any patients, any anything.

Phil DuMas 47:39
Yeah, we’re not having offsite backup, because a lot of people do a backup. That’s another thing that they can do. They can go by themselves, an eight terabyte USB drive and at least start backing up their data. We get phone calls where you know, we don’t have a backup and the server’s down. How long is it going to take? Well, if you have to reinstall everything from scratch, and by the way, you’re never getting your data back that was on there. You’re in trouble, right? And especially if you’re anybody who has to retain records, you’re in real trouble. So, you know, we tell people all the time, you know, you can buy, even if you don’t have anything else going by an external drive, backup the data and on Friday nights take it home with you.

Jordan Ostroff 48:16
Which I mean, these days was

Phil DuMas 48:19
an eight terabyte drive. Not even. I think they’ve got about $479 the best buy right now. Wow. So I mean, it’s just not even offsite backups are the best. That’s huge. We just help recover a company out in Texas that had their backups with us because we also offer that service. And they were part of the issue that came up with the tornadoes that went through the town out there outside, just north of Irving.

Jordan Ostroff 48:46
Oh, so in Dallas, they were they were wiped out.

Phil DuMas 48:49
Yeah, they literally got wiped out and these guys do medical billing. Oddly enough. They gave us a call. We went out there and they have 32 employees and They decide they’re going to set up in the holiday and conference room, because it was the cheapest space they could find. They needed to generate revenue. So we literally had Dell drop a server to them. And they did next a shipment for see a Dell like those guys. And we showed up and we got them online, got him on the internet, and were able to copy it back. And 48 hours later, they were back to working in that same room. And as of right now, there’s no space for them to go to they’ve got an indefinite lease on the conference room at the Holiday Inn.

Jordan Ostroff 49:33
Yeah, you know, I mean, look, we we try to joke that we plan for everything, but like, you know, Hurricane comes through and

Phil DuMas 49:42
we’ll make it work off the cloud or ransomware Yeah, I mean, if ransomware hits you know, most people don’t understand how ransomware works. They think that they got infected yesterday and they turn on their computer today and that’s not at all. Most of the ransomware is are advanced enough where they will literally go in and Vector Machine Then they look for your backup program. And they’ll infect all the way down to the server. And right before your backup program kicks in, it sees the schedule, it watches it for three or four days, it sees the schedule, right before it kicks in and encrypts the data. It lets it do the backup, then it decrypt the data. So you unknowingly have been backing up encrypted data for 30 days.

Jordan Ostroff 50:25
So get those hard drives six months ago, right?

Phil DuMas 50:30
Or if you’ve got an off site, it’s very difficult for a machine to encrypt offsite backups, you can’t it’s very difficult. Very easy for to do it for local that the offsite backup for almost impossible to encrypt,

Jordan Ostroff 50:42
just because it’ll flag it on the outside or they’ll

Phil DuMas 50:45
well they they don’t have time to encrypt the data and decrypt the data like they would for on site stuff.

Jordan Ostroff 50:52
Interesting. Yeah. I always joking. I tell people there’s always like that moment and what 80% of these where I just like, get scared shit. So you hit me on that moment, like, four times. I think you will the record right now

Phil DuMas 51:06
is just a realization. That’s all.

Jordan Ostroff 51:07
No. I mean, that’s, that’s why it’s so scary that you know, it’s not. It’s not the sky is falling. It’s like, Hey man, this guy fell six months ago didn’t realize that

Phil DuMas 51:15
Oh yeah, absolutely, you know, and maybe we come back again and we’ll talk about cryptocurrencies and how much the world knows about you that you have no clue they knew and how they know about it.

Jordan Ostroff 51:25
I like it. We’re

Phil DuMas 51:26
digital marketing, it’s awesome. We’re tagging

Jordan Ostroff 51:28
or we’re giving a shout out to future things. Alright, so I mean, that puts us at about almost the hour mark. Okay. Um, any, you know, anything else that we have to let our business owners know at this point? I mean, really, it seems like they should just call you or somebody similar to come out and

Phil DuMas 51:45
now we’d love to help them. We can you know, a lot of people they’ll hear this podcast or like, you know what, he just said four things. I understood one of them. Yeah. Just call us. We don’t mind we’ll talk to you about it. We just, you know, advice is free. You know, that’s another thing. We also How a lot of people that are very smart and what they do but not very smart in technology and we tell them there is no such thing as a stupid question there really isn’t just because I know it and you don’t doesn’t mean that you’re dumb and we treat everybody with the same amount of respect from you know our digital marketing companies to the manufacturing companies in the flip side of that also is a lot of people say we’re not big enough to be able to get their attention I spent three and a half hours yesterday with a single doctor office helping them out

Jordan Ostroff 52:31
well you get caught up with something else or or you get hit on the fishing with a you know a million other emails.

Phil DuMas 52:36
Sure. I mean it’s that there’s we don’t discriminate based on size or revenue or anything. I mean, we really do

Jordan Ostroff 52:43
well neither does the hacker

Phil DuMas 52:44
know they, they have no idea

Jordan Ostroff 52:46
more time at Target but they’re happily they’ll happily catch you up in there for you know, 10s of thousands of dollars, a couple hundred thousand dollars etc.

Phil DuMas 52:55
We were able to recover the one yesterday and three and a half hours and save them $10,000 worshiping ransomware. That’s awesome. So that’s that’s the key. You know, I’m going home last night gone. Yeah, this is why we do this. Yeah. And we’ve got the inverse of that to end on is that when I did run a government think tank for a while, I ran a lab. And it was all based on technology. And the reason I don’t do that anymore is because we found what’s called a zero day exploit. And a zero day exploit means that nobody knows about it yet. And we were looking at a piece of code, and it was Russian hackers. And they were trying to inject a piece of code into a certain location that we have on the internet that we wanted them to inject it to the call those honey pots, okay. And we found that piece of code and we were able to alert people before the Russians were able to deploy their stuff and I say, Russians, if there’s somebody from Russia out there, I’m not picking on you. I mean, these literally were IP addresses from Russia during the attack, probably, you know, Russian narrative wells in the Russian mafia. That’s a big deal. For them, and in this case, it was the Russian mafia. And we stopped it. And then three months later, a gentleman that was in the press decided that he wanted to sing our praises, and he published all our names. Oh my god. Yeah, it was live on the internet for 12 hours, but it was enough to get us death threats.

Jordan Ostroff 54:20

Phil DuMas 54:21
yeah. So. Yeah.

Yeah. Fun stuff. Right.

Jordan Ostroff 54:27
So there are no stupid questions, but there might be stupid shout outs. Yes,

Unknown Speaker 54:31

Jordan Ostroff 54:32
Oh my god. Well, I’m glad you’re alive.

Phil DuMas 54:35
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s me too. Yeah. Yeah, it’s strange. I woke up this morning. I was like, Hey, you still here. Awesome.

Jordan Ostroff 54:42
Yeah. So Alright, so now that we’ve gone through all this, rather than having people rewind, you know what’s the best contact information for them to get ahold of you now that they know they need you?

Phil DuMas 54:51
Sure. So they can go to the website, bell curve, technology. com All one word, and we’ve got our phone number there. If they want to call the office, they can call me directly at 321231148 to, they can also call my partner Brian at 813 to 581258. And if that doesn’t work, just call Phil just call Phil that everybody does Anyway,

Jordan Ostroff 55:12
there was there was a little bit more hesitation on Brian’s number than there was on

Phil DuMas 55:16
this because I don’t ever look at his phone number. I just hit Brian on my phone.

Jordan Ostroff 55:20
I have the opposite. I know my wife’s phone number better than I know mine. Yes, I

Phil DuMas 55:25
will see you’re married and you don’t give out your phone number. So

Right, honey? Yes. I mean, yeah.

Jordan Ostroff 55:34
A part of the service

Phil DuMas 55:35
mark, I’m throwing him a soft ball. He’s not getting it.

Jordan Ostroff 55:38
My wife has I do a lot of networking. You know,

Phil DuMas 55:40
that’s what it is. That’s what it is networking. Yes.

Jordan Ostroff 55:45
All right. On that note, we’re not going to stop that. That’s still relatively new podcast, you know, available on last FM stitcher iTunes. Anyway, I’ll let you post the podcast. So if you come across our podcast, hopefully you enjoy it. If not for me, it’s for a great guest like Phil Please, please, please leave us a nice a nice review a nice honest review. Hopefully it’s five stars but at least if it’s honest, that’ll be great. And we’ll end this podcast the same within all the rest of them. So if somebody takes nothing else from this if they remember nothing except what you’re about to say, what is that one piece of advice that you hope as many business owners as possible know about

Phil DuMas 56:20
antivirus. All right, Windows Defender is not anti virus.

Jordan Ostroff 56:26
Phil is very furiously nodding his head for those of you that can’t see us because you know, it’s a podcast, but all right, anti virus and ideally have asked, oh, yeah,

Phil DuMas 56:35
love Avast, yes. Correct.

Jordan Ostroff 56:37
And it’s free for home users. You got it. There really is no excuse there isn’t. I’m going to go home and download it tonight. That’d be a good idea and hope that I wasn’t hacked six months ago before

Phil DuMas 56:48
the virus were got on there. Right. So you want to do what’s called a boot time scan.

Jordan Ostroff 56:54
boot time scan, advanced anti virus boot time scan. Fantastic. We’ve saved so many theoretical dollars on this podcast. I hope that it kicks in. Alright, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure

Narrator 57:13
you’ve been listening to let’s get up to business from Jordan. We hope you’ve enjoyed the podcast and would consider sharing the show. We would also love an honest five star review through iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or whatever pod catcher you use. If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, please contact producer Mark through email that mark at Jordan law FL. com use this subject line podcast guests in your email. Thank you. We look forward to speaking to you again soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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